Joraa Starkmanir
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
27
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Posted - 2014.09.02 18:32:00 -
[1] - Quote
Rowells wrote:THCS wrote:Name says it. Haulers should have significantly more tank to discourage successful suicide ganks. More tank = More leveraged isk needed to gank.
IMO the leveraged isk need to gank should at least be 80% the value of the hull for t1 freighters and 60% for t2 j-freighters. Is this argument special to freighters? or should we start applying it elsewhere in game aspects as well? (Hint: No)
Actualy that would not be to bad, considering we are talking about hull cost for a t1 ship. Costing 110k to suicide gank a freighter that cost close to 1.3b or more (less than 10% of hull cost)
A tanked Obelist cost 250m to safely gank, or 1/3 of the hull cost. What other T1 ships have that ratio? tanked or untanked. Most T1 battleships can easily get a higher EHP than a cargo fit Charon, and would assume they all have better EHP/isk than the best tanked freighters. |
Joraa Starkmanir
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
27
|
Posted - 2014.09.02 22:14:00 -
[2] - Quote
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:
Lots of ships can be ganked cheaply, below your 10% of t1 hull cost criteria.
An untanked covetor (30m) can be suicide ganked by a single low meta fit catalyst (<2.5m).
An untanked Talos (60m) can be suicide ganked by 2 low meta fit catalysts (< 5m in total). If it is tanked, it will take 3-4 low meta catalysts to kill the Talos (< 10m).
A Cargo Fit Apoc (160m) has only 25k EHP, which could be ganked by 3-4 low meta catalysts (<10m isk total)
Lots of ships can be ganked by a few low-cost ships. The question is, how many pilots put themselves in such a situation.
It has only been a couple months since they gave freighters low slots! That change allowed freighters to fit bulkheads and significantly increase their EHP. Fitting cargo expanded, nanofibers, and i-stabs rather than bulkheads to a freighter is a pilot choice, and it makes them easier to kill.
This leaves us with a reasonable decision to make: Do you fit a max cargo capacity freighter, taking more stuff at once, while simultaneously being much easier to gank. Or do you fit a max tank fit freighter, which is much more expensive to gank but limited in its cargo capacity and slower than it potentially could be?
Having choices like this is good for the game. Players constantly make similar choices when running missions (tank vs dps), when doing incursions (tank vs dps), when mining (tank vs yield), when PvPing, and more. I personally find the balance points pretty reasonable at the moment, but perhaps your personal experiences are different. Can you explain what is out of balance?
Ok I jumped the gun a little there for untanked ships, still stand on tanked ships tho. Using cheaper catalysts than in the other scenario would mean total price to gank freighters with thos ewould also be cheaper total (10m vs 2.5m). You estimate 6,5-8,33k dmg per cata for >2.5m some thing that equal around 60m to gang an untanked Charon or a ratio of 21:1 for isk (charon hull:isk to gank). This is using the numbers from Buller Therapist @ 15k dmg/10m cost and comparing to your numers from cargo fit Apoc (25k EHP 3-4cata @ <10m total)
Untanked Covetor 30m vs <2.5m catalyst Untanked Talos 60m vs <5m catalysts Cargo fit Apoc 160m vs <10m catalysts Cargo fit Charon 1300m vs 60m catalysts
If we up those numbers to match for ganking cost we get, 24x untanked Covetor = 720m (cost 60m to gank) 12x untanked Talos = 720m (60m to gank) 6x cargo fit Apoc = 960m (60m to gank) 1x cargo fit Charon = 1300m (60m to gank)
Was actualy expecting to get ALOT closer than this for cargo fit freighter, but WORST case scenario show us that freighters simply have to little EHP for their cost. Sure you would need 24 pilots to kill a cargo fir Charon with whatever fit this is, but you also just need 120m isk in cargo before a freighter gank is likely to break even (estimate 50% drop).
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